Talk:Melty Blood/MBTL

Characters whose frame data should be accurate

Akiha

• Most frame data was last updated prior to September patch (1.3.3) to my knowledge. Likely needs a consistency pass along with frame data changes. Hexeaktivitat (talk) 17:39, 14 January 2023 (PST)
• Did a consistency pass on all framedata and added stuff like costs, properties, etc in the process. Still missing cancels. --Fluid (talk) 18:10, 7 March 2023 (PST)
• Fixed little discrepancies on 623B active frames and 236B recovery frames (wikiman 16:38, 18 March 2023 (PDT))

Arcueid

Ciel

• now accurate for real actually --Dan (talk) 22:48, 12 March 2023 (PDT)

Hisui

Kohaku

• Thanks Fluury. --Dan (talk) 08:32, 15 January 2023 (PST)

Maids

• assists and comical tree done so that should be it --Dan (talk) 10:53, 16 March 2023 (PDT)

Miyako

Saber

• updated now--Dan (talk) 15:51, 12 March 2023 (PDT)

Shiki

• Framedata should be completely de-capped, but cancel options, damage, and maybe clash frames may have some inconsistencies. --Fluid (talk) 01:53, 14 January 2023 (PST)
• Added more cancel options, fixed 6BC damage, added varied startups for 22A and 2BC, and other misc stuff. Data should be complete, description updates pending. (wikiman 14:51, 15 January 2023 (PST))

Kouma

• Entire page is practically finished now, only missing some matchup data and niche combos (wikiman 07:05, 13 January 2023 (PST))
• Threw in move properties to test them out. Seems to work fine for the most part. (wikiman 19:57, 26 February 2023 (PST))

Noel

• Framedata should be accurate now (wikiman 18:07, 18 March 2023 (PDT))

Roa

• Worked on normals and some specials descriptions to more than one sentence, will move on to the rest of specials at some point (wikiman 12:50, 14 January 2023 (PST))

Vlov

• This took way longer than it should have and I'm exhausted. --Fluid (talk) 01:56, 15 March 2023 (PDT)

Warc

• finally (wikiman 15:49, 21 March 2023 (PDT))

Aoko

DAN

PCiel

• here u go fluid xoxo --Dan (talk) 20:00, 15 March 2023 (PDT)

Mario

Mash

• woo (wikiman 17:01, 20 March 2023 (PDT))

Neco

• Still needs data for summons, which will likely go in a separate section --Sprint (talk) 07:16, 13 January 2023 (PST)

Ushi

Dantes

Note that some of the above need corrections/standardization to cancel data/damage etc.

--Dan (talk) 06:49, 13 January 2023 (PST)

Properties/Attributes

There was discussion in PSA about establishing a list of properties, attributes, etc. to add to the glossary page and link to in every move description like the UNI wiki. Below is a list of everything we have so far so feel free to include any more you're aware of or remove any redundancies with a clear reason why. --Fluid (talk) 10:11, 16 January 2023 (PST)

The special properties below have been rewritten and added to the glossary, but someone else needs to do the keyword stuff that allows us to just type things like {{P-MBTL|Chip Damage}} into the characters' data sections. --Fluid (talk) 09:56, 16 February 2023 (PST)

These have all been added to the Glossary and the properties and can now be invoked on characters' data pages yay. --Fluid (talk) 17:28, 16 February 2023 (PST)

Special Properties [DRAFT]

Launch (Not to be confused with Launchers, any move that transitions the opponent from a grounded state into a float state.)

Launcher (Name pending maybe, moves that do a cinematic launch. 3C, Shield A, arc 4BC, tohno 214C etc. If launcher has already been used, launchers revert to launch state.)

Wall Bounce (Moves that wallbounce the opponent upon reaching the corner.)

Screen Bounce (Name pending, moves that wallbounce the opponent against the edge of the screen even if you are nowhere near the corner such as Ciel 3BC. We do not yet know if there is a move that screen bounces that does not also wallbounce, but the opposite can be observed with Aoko 236AAA/6BC)

Ground Bounce (Moves that bounce the opponent off the ground, such as Saber j.[C] or Aoko 3BC)

Crumple (Moves that stun the opponent before they slowly fall to the ground, any hit during this state causes the opponent to float. If you don't hit them in time Dantes 236AA on ground hit, for example.)

Hard Knockdown (Moves that do not allow the opponent to ground tech, giving a hard knockdown. This includes most EX moves and 2Cs. Depending on the type of knockdown, you may be able to get an OTG.)

Restand (Moves that put the opponent into a standing state on hit. Noel 214A/B, Sion 214B/C [Coping])

Soft Knockdown (Moves that put the opponent into a state where they can ground tech after little or no delay. If the delay is long enough, you can actually hit them with an OTG combo in this state. Typically comes as a consolation prize for moves like Aoko 623A or PCiel j3B where you flubbed your timing. Should the opponent not tech for whatever reason, this transitions into a Hard Knockdown)

Vacuum (Moves that pull the opponent toward you. Arcueid 236[A], Dantes 4C.)

No Collision (Moves that remove your collision box and allow you to pass through opponents. Miyako 6A+B/236AB, Kohaku 214A.)

Chip Damage (On block, this move will deal some chip damage. Only list this for specific normals, all special moves chip on block.)

Block Shove (Lifts opponents into the air if the move is blocked. Kouma 236[B], Kouma 236[C])

Attributes & Invuln

Following up from the post we made a month ago, I'd like to get started on Attributes and then finalizing the stuff above so we can start linking these properties to each of the character's individual moves. --Fluid (talk) 09:51, 16 February 2023 (PST)

Attributes

Attributes are pretty much ported from uni. Many redundancies from uni are removed on account of being covered in the Invuln section.

Attributes are used to determine invuln in the few cases where it matters.

Strike (UNI wiki says "Attacks that hit the opponent without "grabbing" them." but then doesn't make an consideration for hitgrabs so uhhhh.)

Throw (Attacks that grab the opponent.)

Head (Typically seen on air normals.)

Projectile (Attacks that are independent of the player character.)

Characters with moves that have incomplete/mediocre images

This isn't urgent by any stretch of the imagination, just a way to see where we're at with regards to the images for every character's when compared to the ideal (Kouma's Page). A macro issue we seem to have run into and need to have a discussion about is the handling of Moon Skills. --Fluid (talk) 07:18, 6 March 2023 (PST)

• Shiki

• Missing vfx on all non-knife normals.
• Moon skills.

• Arcueid

• Missing vfx on pretty much all her normals.
• Moon skills.

• Akiha

• Missing vfx on all non-claw normals.
• Moon skills.

• Ciel

• Missing vfx on all normals.
• Missing vfx on DP.

• Hisui

• Missing vfx on some of her normals.
• Some of her normals are from the dark ages before hanteichan.
• Moon skills.

• Kohaku

• Missing vfx on some normals like 6C.
• Pretty much all of her normals have tracers but were taken during the dark ages before hanteichan
• Magical Amber Missile needs images that visually represent her trajectory for 214A, B, C, X~4A, X~4B, and the two moonskill versions.

• Maids

• Kohaku point 214X uses her 22D sprite instead of the sprite of her pointing forward.

• Miyako

• Missing VFX for all normals and special moves.

• Noel

• Missing VFX for all normals and 22X.

• Roa

• Missing VFX for (basically) all normals, j236X is green for some reason.

• Vlov

• Ice moon skills.

• Red Arcueid

• Missing VFX on all of her normals.
• Moon skills.

• Saber

• All normals and most specials are gross (sorry) ingame screenshots with the greenscreen mod on. If we cannot get the wind vfx to appear in hanteichan, just display excalibur normally as though she were in heat, or something.
• Moon skills.

• Dead Apostle Noel

• Most normals lack VFX.
• Moon skills.

• Aoko

• Missing vfx on 5A, jA, 6C rekka's 2 enders, and the followup to 623B.
• Moon skills.

• P. Ciel

• Missing vfx on various normals.
• Moon skills.

• Mario

• Moon skills.

• Mash

• Missing vfx on pretty much everything except 22X.
• Moon skills.

• Dantes

• 236A~A and 236A~B are missing vfx.
• Moon skills.

• Ushiwakamaru

• Moon skills.

Notable Players for each character - very tentative lists that will probably be rolled out post-evo JP

• Shiki
• Arcueid
• Akiha
• Ciel
• Hisui
• Kohaku
• Maids
• Miyako
• Kouma
• Noel
• Roa
• Vlov
• Warc
• Saber

Disclaimer: This list is derived from community input and is in no way comprehensive or a form of ranking of any kind. Our community criteria can be found here.

Usual Color	Handles/Links	Region	Status	Notes
File:Saber-1.png	Infinity	United States	Active	Match videos.
File:Saber-1.png	Blaznic	United States	Active	Can be found in #saber on PSA. Match videos.
File:Saber-1.png	Clopss	United Kingdom	Active	Can be found in Leumina discord. Match videos.
File:Saber-1.png	Polaris	South Korea	Active	Match videos.

• DAN
• Aoko
• PCiel
• Mario
• Neco
• Mash
• Dantes
• Ushi

Character pick reasons template added to all characters

Template:CharacterPickReasons - currently it's the same as Template:ProConTable per discussions in PSA Discord #wiki. The new template was added so that the headers can be written as "why/why not" to pick a character, which would allow very similar information to be added for character strengths/weaknesses, while also arguably serving an "average" player better by giving room to discuss execution/knowledge requirements, play style, etc. without needing to fit them into the square holes of strengths/weaknesses.

Last decision that was made was to hold off on this change into after Evo Japan.

--Dimeq (talk) 19:32, 18 March 2023 (PDT)

Set back to "Pick if you like/Avoid if you dislike" --Dimeq (talk) 13:09, 19 March 2023 (PDT)

Character Overview as a "Sales Pitch" Idea

Idea moved from pro/con -> why to play/why to avoid to this idea: Just have the character overview page be a "sales pitch" of a 3 sentence short description, a list of what they do (basically just the "why to pick" list) and then like 3 embedded youtube videos of gameplay samples.

overview text ala BlazBlue (Jin's is good) + list of things they do (why to pick) + 3 gameplay samples

--Fluury (talk) 09:26, 19 March 2023 (PDT)

Characters with outdated hitboxes (The evil part 2 of "De-capping the wiki")

List of outdated hitboxes from the August/Nov. While the lack of standardization with transparency on red/green kills me, this is exclusively going to list missing/incorrect hitboxes instead of aesthetically unpleasing hitboxes. There may be hitboxes that have been changed prior to august that were never updated on the wiki, if I catch any of those, I'll put them in even if it wasn't changed in the august/nov patch. --Fluid (talk) 13:50, 23 March 2023 (PDT)

Tohno

• j.A
• j.B
• 3C
• 623A/B/C/3BC (Completely missing the ground hit, which was buffed. Also missing the late hit, where the DP's hitbox shrinks late into the active frames. Fortunately, the hitboxes for each of these are more or less the same between the *DP variants.)
• j.236A/B/C/j.6BC (Also completely missing the initial hit.)

Arcueid

• j.A
• 4C (Was buffed in both august and nov what were they cooking)
• j.2B
• j.2[B] (Completely missing, is fatter than j2B)
• j.2C (It claims a hurtbox reduction but it appears to mainly refer to the time between the two hits, double check though and put the hurtboxes between the two hits on the wiki.)
• 3C

Akiha

• 2B
• 5C
• 2C
• 214A/B/C/4BC (They shrunk the hurtboxes in BOTH patches wtf)
• 22A/B/2BC (While the 1 hitbox present is correct, the move has 3 hitboxes and it's important to be able to visualize the range of all 3)
• 22C (Move has 3 completely diff hitboxes from the A/B variants.)

Ciel

• 5B
• 2C
• 6C(Hurtbox reduction, probably in reference to the startup instead of the actual active frames.)
• 214B~A ("Expanded hitbox upward", looking ingame, the actual projectile is different from the ingame keys and will require a new mockup, because the current mockup on the wiki just flat out lies with regards to anything that isn't 214A/B and 214[A], which all share the same htibox.)
• 214B~B
• 214B~X~B (read above)
• 214B~X~A ("Expanded hitbox upward", however, read above)
• 214C (read above)
• j.214A/j.214B+followups (Hitbox is "backwards" lol)
• j.214C (Individual keys have diff hitboxes than the rest.)
• j.236C

Hisui

• 5C (Only has 5[C] hitboxes which are completely different.)
• 5[C] (And would you look at that the 5[C] hitboxes are outdated anyway)
• 2C
• j.B (Shoutout to wild woody for fixing jA but not jB)
• 2[BC] (Uses the 2BC hitbox, but 2[BC]'s hitbox is different.)

Kohaku

• 22B (Only 1 of the two hitboxes it alternates between is represented)

Maids

• Actually pretty good overall.

Kouma

• lol

Miyako

• j.C (F12-14's hitbox was shrunk, the current image is fine, it just needs a 2nd one)
• 3C

Noel

• vivimayoi the hidden Noel goat!?

Roa

• 3C

Vlov

• chester is my goat

Red Arcueid

• 5B (Completely missing. The two hits of BE5B are the only ones on there for some reason.
• 5C
• 5[C] (completely missing)
• 2C
• j.A
• j.B (both hits)

Saber

• 236A
• 236B
• 236XX
• 236X4X
• 236XXX
• 236XX4X (IT ISN'T ACTUALLY ANY DIFF BUT EVERY OTHER ONE NEEDS TO BE CHANGED SO PLEASE JUST DO THIS ONE TOO, EVEN IF I'M BREAKING MY OWN RULES)
• 236C (YES LITERALLY THE ENTIRE REKKA AND THE EX NEEDS OVERHAULING)
• j.236[B] (missing completely)

Dead Apostle Noel

• 5A
• 5B
• 3C
• j.A
• j.C
• j.[C] (it also got the j[C] buff but they didn't list this in the notes)

Aoko

• 5B
• 623A (STARTUP HURTBOX RETRACTION AND HIT)
• 623B (see above)
• 623C (see above)
• 3BC (see above)

Mario

• j.B

Powered Ciel

• goats got it covered

Neco Arc

• 214X (Does not show hurtboxes which should be changed, but as of nov her hurtbox shrinks during startup so can be a relevant low profile option in edge cases.)

Mash

• 5C
• 5C
• 2B
• j.B
• 3C
• j.236X (all)
• j.6BC