Them's Fightin' Herds/Shanty/Strategy: Difference between revisions

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| image        =TFH_icon_Pom.png
| image        =TFH_icon_Pom.png
| charLink    =Them's Fightin' Herds/Pom
| charLink    =Them's Fightin' Herds/Pom
| data        = Keeping a keen eye on Pom's puppies and their number of uses is critical. For details on how Pom's puppies work, see: Pom's Magic. A tip some players do is to use the in-game UI to keep track of which dogs she has available. Sometimes Pom players would leave the dogs off-screen to mess with the opponents. It can be difficult to know if the dog's uses are finished and are gone in the heat of the moment. Sometimes the dogs are just hiding from the camera view waiting for their opportunity to strike.  
| data        = Keeping a keen eye on Pom's puppies and their number of uses is critical. For details on how Pom's puppies work, see: [[Them's_Fightin'_Herds/Pom#Magic | Pom's Magic]]. A tip some players do is to use the in-game UI to keep track of which dogs she has available. Sometimes Pom players would leave the dogs off-screen to mess with the opponents. It can be difficult to know if the dog's uses are finished and are gone in the heat of the moment. Sometimes the dogs are just hiding from the camera view waiting for their opportunity to strike.  


<big>'''Neutral'''</big><br/>
<big>'''Neutral'''</big><br/>
Long poke can be annoying to deal with as Shanty but there are ways around it. The notable tool the Shanty has is Bulkhead or 4/6C. This move high-profiles some of Pom normals and can easily get in if used correctly. For example, if a Pom player is PushBlocking you after 5C then they do their own 5C. Using Bulkhead can help punish the whiff recovery. You must be the judge when to use 6C or use 4C or delay it. 4/6C may be the same move but they have their own use because of the distances that Bulkhead ends at. Shanty's game plan is to dodge and weave their opponent's buttons and punish the recovery of said buttons or moves. 2B, 236A, 5D are some other tools you can use as well.  
Long poke can be annoying to deal with as Shanty but there are ways around it. The notable tool the Shanty has is Bulkhead or {{clr|14|4C}}/{{clr|14|6C}}. This move high-profiles some of Pom normals and can easily get in if used correctly. For example, if a Pom player is PushBlocking you after {{clr|14|5C}} then they do their own {{clr|14|5C}}. Using Bulkhead can help punish the whiff recovery. You must be the judge when to use {{clr|14|6C}} or use {{clr|14|4C}} or delay it. {{clr|14|4C}}/{{clr|14|6C}} may be the same move but they have their own use because of the distances that Bulkhead ends at. Shanty's game plan is to dodge and weave their opponent's buttons and punish the recovery of said buttons or moves. {{clr|13|2B}}, {{clr|12|236A}}, and {{clr|15|5D}} are some other tools you can use as well.  


Pom dogs are projectile moves that can be used at any time. Shanty having projectile invul moves and stances can use those dogs to make unsafe and risky callouts somewhat safe. (IF THEY ARE ACTIVE) The fastest way and safest way is to do 5C 2C 2D. You can do 2C into Cutlass (A,B,C) to KO dogs and stancels to be somewhat safe. This can throw your opponent off if they are not ready for it. You need to keep in mind Pom as well, if Pom is blocking or attacks you, Pom will get a hard counter hit and you will lose half your health if Pom decides to spend meter. A good idea is to try to hit the dogs when Pom is moving them manually. It can be difficult to hit dogs when they are moving/active. It takes some time to get used to Shanty disjoints like 2C or 5C to hit them.  
Pom dogs are projectile moves that can be used at any time. Shanty having projectile invul moves and stances can use those dogs to make unsafe and risky callouts somewhat safe. (IF THEY ARE ACTIVE) The fastest way and safest way is to do {{clr|14|5C}} {{clr|14|2C}} {{clr|15|2D}}. You can do {{clr|14|2C}} into Cutlass ({{clr|12|A}},{{clr|13|B}},{{clr|14|C}}) to KO dogs and stancels to be somewhat safe. This can throw your opponent off if they are not ready for it. You need to keep in mind Pom as well, if Pom is blocking or attacks you, Pom will get a hard counter hit and you will lose half your health if Pom decides to spend meter. A good idea is to try to hit the dogs when Pom is moving them manually. It can be difficult to hit dogs when they are moving/active. It takes some time to get used to Shanty disjoints like {{clr|14|2C}} or {{clr|14|5C}} to hit them.  


(Following 2 statements were tested without the use of any dogs. This is just talking about solo Pom)
(Following 2 statements were tested without the use of any dogs. This is just talking about solo Pom)


Knowing how to Anti Air Pom is also key when playing neutral. Pom players are known for jumping in attacks like J.B or J.C. 2B is strong Anti Air but can't cover some specific ranges that 6A or 236A can cover. The general rule is when Pom is doing j.C you dash up 6A or 236A to Anti Air into a combo. When punishing JC at max range it can be tricky to get a combo off. Some adjustments might be needed to keep the combo going or end the combo short and go for HKD instead.  
Knowing how to Anti Air Pom is also key when playing neutral. Pom players are known for jumping in attacks like {{clr|13|j.B}} or {{clr|14|j.C}}. {{clr|13|2B}} is strong Anti Air but can't cover some specific ranges that {{clr|12|6A}} or {{clr|12|236A}} can cover. The general rule is when Pom is doing {{clr|14|j.C}} you dash up {{clr|12|6A}} or {{clr|12|236A}} to Anti Air into a combo. When punishing {{clr|14|j.C}} at max range it can be tricky to get a combo off. Some adjustments might be needed to keep the combo going or end the combo short and go for HKD instead.  


For J.B (and Air Dash J.B) 6A and 2B work just as well. Sometimes Pom does left-right situations and doing 2B can help deal with the potential incoming mixes. If Pom does full jump J.B Back Dash or Forward Dash Block. Against Air Dash J.B it is a lot easier to deal with 2B or Back Dash. It is important to remember that 2B is a move that can help Pom deal with her overwhelmingly strong vortex mixes.
Pom {{clr|14|j.C}} is a fake mix mid-screen on her own in both HKD or SKD, you can easily {{clr|12|6A}} it and not worry so much about pom dogs ({{clr|13|236B}}). It depends on which dog Pom is using in said setups. A lot of it can vary.


<big>'''Offense'''</big><br/>
<big>'''Offense'''</big><br/>
The main goal of Shanty in this MU is to not let Pom summon any dogs on screen and try to fight a 1 on 1 as much as possible. Combos with Shanty would always put your opponents near or at the corner. When Pom players are trapped in the corner it is good to check for their RPS wake-up habits. If they are known for up backing in corner 2A check them. Your safest bait is to check with 2A and react accordingly. 2A covers the majority of wakeups but sometimes can't check forward rolls. Delaying your second 2A can help keep them locked down. This will depend a lot on who you are fighting but showing that you are willing to check them is good. It makes Pom players stop jumping and blocking. In some cases CC if it goes into block strings. Check them to also stop dogs attacks. Pom dogs stop dead in their tracks if Pom is hit or blocks any button (However 236C dog 6D, also known as “Mama’s Counter”, doesn’t stop if Pom blocks. It only stops if you hit Pom).  
The main goal of Shanty in this MU is to not let Pom summon any dogs on screen and try to fight a 1 on 1 as much as possible. Combos with Shanty would always put your opponents near or at the corner. When Pom players are trapped in the corner it is good to check for their RPS wake-up habits. If they are known for up backing in corner {{clr|12|2A}} check them. Your safest bait is to check with {{clr|12|2A}} and react accordingly. {{clr|12|2A}} covers the majority of wakeups but sometimes can't check forward rolls. Delaying your second {{clr|12|2A}} can help keep them locked down. This will depend a lot on who you are fighting but showing that you are willing to check them is good. It makes Pom players stop jumping and blocking. In some cases CC if it goes into block strings. Check them to also stop dogs attacks. Pom dogs stop dead in their tracks if Pom is hit or blocks any button (However {{clr|14|236C}} dog {{clr|15|6D}}, also known as “Mama’s Counter”, doesn’t stop if Pom blocks. It only stops if you hit Pom).  


Stagger Pressure with Shanty is great to have under your belt in this MU. This helps deal with defensive Poms who Pushblock Sheep herd A/B > 236XX. Acting as a frame trap to cover Sheep herd or caught a mistime Pushblock. When Pom Sheepherds Shanty would automatic turn if Pom passes you.  
Stagger Pressure with Shanty is great to have under your belt in this MU. This helps deal with defensive Poms who Pushblock Sheepherd {{clr|12|A}}/{{clr|13|B}} > 236XX. Acting as a frame trap to cover Sheepherd or caught a mistime Pushblock. When Pom Sheepherds Shanty would automatically turn if Pom passes you.  


ADD GRABS for your corner set-play. Grabs in general are very important for Shanty RPS tools. Grabs allow you to set up Fuzzy block strings, Grabbaits, or in this case, help deal with sheep herding RPS. Showing more Grabs in your game plan is never a bad option to show and help mix up your pressure. Make the Pom respect your pressure, although the actual reward for grabbing mid-screen is fairly weak for Shanty. Shanty’s Grabs really shine in the corner. When in the corner, grabs allow Shanty to set up either a corner steal pump a little more damage or gather magic resources.
ADD GRABS for your corner set-play. Grabs in general are very important for Shanty RPS tools. Grabs allow you to set up Fuzzy block strings, Grabbaits, or in this case, help deal with sheep herding RPS. Showing more Grabs in your game plan is never a bad option to show and help mix up your pressure. Make the Pom respect your pressure, although the actual reward for grabbing mid-screen is fairly weak for Shanty. Shanty’s Grabs really shine in the corner. When in the corner, grabs allow Shanty to set up either a corner steal pump a little more damage or gather magic resources.


It is ok to go in and stay in but also learn how to play at Mid ranges. Now it can seem bad to just stand there but it can actually work in Shanty's favor. Stay in Mid-range vs Pom makes some Pom panic. Shanty magic gathers slowly over time while Pom needs to input a special to get a dog out. By just standing there you are threatening to punish any dog summons. While at the same time gaining something from it. If the Pom super just answers back with Cutlass C > Super 1, as the Cut C invulnerability lets Shanty ignore the Super and hit Pom, and Super 1 combos l
It is ok to go in and stay in but also learn how to play at Mid ranges. Now it can seem bad to just stand there but it can actually work in Shanty's favor. Stay in Mid-range vs Pom, this makes some Pom panic. Shanty magic gathers slowly over time while Pom needs to input a special to get a dog out. By just standing there you are threatening to punish any dog summons. While at the same time gaining something from it. If the Pom super just answers back with Cutlass C > Super 1, as Cutlass C invulnerability lets Shanty ignore the Super and hit Pom.


<big>'''Defense'''</big><br/>
<big>'''Defense'''</big><br/>
Defense vs Pom can be tough. She is known to be hard to block. She can do empty jump low, high low, left right, etc. She has a wide range of mixes to do. Breaking down Pom mixes one by one can help you understand them and see which part you are getting hit on. Most of the time it is important to look at Pom like everyone in the cast since she is also able to reverse beat 6A from B normals.
Defense vs Pom can be tough. She is known to be hard to block. She can do empty jumps low, high low, left right, etc. She has a wide range of mixes to do. Breaking down Pom mixes one by one can help you understand them and see which part you are getting hit on. Most of the time it is important to look at Pom like everyone in the cast since she is also able to reverse beat {{clr|12|6A}} from {{clr|13|B}} normals.


JC is a fake mix mid-screen on HKD or SKD, you can easily 6A it and not worry so much about pom dogs (236B). It depends on which dog Pom is using in said setups. A lot of it can vary.
For deal with {{clr|13|j.B}} (and IAD{{clr|13|j.B}}) {{clr|12|6A}} and {{clr|13|2B}} work just as well. Sometimes Pom does left-right situations and doing  {{clr|13|2B}} can help deal with the potential incoming mixes. If Pom does full jump {{clr|13|j.B}} Back Dash or Forward Dash Block. Against IAD{{clr|13|j.B}} it is a lot easier to deal with  {{clr|13|2B}} or Back Dash. It is important to remember that {{clr|13|2B}} is a move that can help Pom deal with her overwhelmingly strong vortex mixes.
 
<big>'''Extra notes'''</big><br/>
If Pom is fullscreen and she super you can’t mess with her. Just block it out and keep an eye out if she summons a dog or is moving a dog towards you when the super is about to end.


}}
}}

Revision as of 17:20, 2 March 2023

Neutral

Important Normals

  • 6A: Shanty 6A Anti-Air has head invulnerability
  • 2A: Shanty 2A is the longest in the cast, which makes this tied for her best poke option alongside 2B.
  • 2B: Shanty 2B low profiles. Another excellent poke and can even anti-air in some jank situations.
  • 5C: Massive first-hit damage best use for conuter situations.
  • 2C: 2C can cancel into 5C and vice-versa. 2C on block while stanceling is +2 allowing pressure reset.
  • 4/6C: 4/6C can be used to go over certain normals, projectiles, and specials while in blockstrings and in neutral



Shanty's neutral can be extremely difficult. With few pokes and fewer disjoints, you are forced to play defensively from roundstart until you get a hit in.

During roundstart, your goal is mostly to get close to the opponent without getting hit. Often times this can take the form of willingly taking a blockstring to try and poke your way out of that. Other options you have are Backdash > Parley. While this doesn't gain you a hit or blockstring, it gains you magic, which can otherwise be difficult to get before you run offense. It's not entirely safe, as the opponent can dashblock into it and punish, but it beats many common layer 1 roundstart options that people use.

When further away, you're best way of approaching is unequivocally dashblocking. Cutlass C can be a tempting option, however it's very high risk and I PROMISE you it doesn't go as far as you think it does. Keelhaul can be a quick way to close distance, but is fairly risky vs someone who knows how to stuff it, while also being a bit tricky to space correctly. Broadside is another option, however, like Keelhaul it's easily stuffed. Unlike Keelhaul, it's fairly easy to space to be plus, but due to slow movement speed, it can be accidentally backdashed.

Closer up you start to develop more options. Dashblocking is still the safest, however, a well-spaced 2A or 2B can also provide a nice opening. Letting you start your pressure.

Movement

Shanty's movement is her calling card. Run Stance gives her access to some of the most hail-mary burst options in the game, with a sliding low, high-damage mid, and a projectile invuln overhead. Ontop of that, she sports a pretty decent forward and back dash, a super low-profile crouch (suck it, tianhuo), and Wallcling, easily the cheesiest and weirdest movement option in the entire game. Throw all of these options into the melting pot and what comes out is a character that's essentially a wildcard in neutral, with a ton of options that the opponent has to either react to or play around in order to avoid.

Offense

This is where the fun begins. Shanty's like a mosquito, in the sense that once she's on, even if you manage to swat her off, her options are almost always faster than yours and she'll manage to find her way back on with relative ease. 2B is the move that immediately comes to mind, as it quickly and seamlessly closes and small gaps between Shanty and her opponent, and from there she can continue pressure very easily with stance cancel 2C, leaving her +2, continuing the blender. An option that was not mentioned under movement was shorthop, and for good reason. Shanty's shorthop is an absolute beast of an option on a character like her. Shorthop j.A being a lightning fast instand overhead that can beat into j.B in the SAME shorthop and leaves her +8 on block is ridiculous. and EVEN IF they pushblock, 2B is always waiting, dying to continue that sweet sweet pressure. Truly nothing is sacred from Shanty.

Pressure Structure

Stancels

Whenever Shanty has magic, she has the ability to cancel her normals into her 5D Run Stance, with a selection of followups. One followup is to simply hold 2, cancelling the stance as soon as possible, allowing Shanty to reset her pressure. This action leaves her +2 if done from 2C, +1 if done from 6A, and at a slight disadvantage from other normals.

This gives her the opportunity to reset her pressure, but it is often not safe to do so, as these normals may leave her out of range of her A normals. Additionally, only 2C and 6A are plus-on-block, meaning that the opponent is able to challenge Stancels done from other normals.

One way to circumvent this problem is to use Broadside (5D~B). Broadside is a mid-hitting special that is only -2, and can be made advantageous on block if spaced. Shanty can cancel into 5D stance, and use Broadside to frametrap opponents who may try to challenge her pressure resets. This is especially dangerous in the corner, where Broadside leads to a wallstick, allowing Shanty to combo afterwards. Forcing respect with Broadside opens up the potential for Shanty to capitalize on her Stancel pressure and Run Stance's other followups.

Okizeme

Hard Knockdown

When done well, Shanty's hard knockdown oki is incredibly strong. With several fast options, you can easily overcome the opponents mental stack. You also have the option of safely gaining magic and running your normal pressure afterwards. 236B gives the best oki by far, due to location and plus frames, however it does add a hefty amount of JD so other options can be more advisable. Some common okizeme options include:

  • 2C/236B > Meaty 22[A]
- By timing 22[A] correctly, you can be up to +13, allowing you to easily continue pressure with a good amount of magic to use. Timing it after 236B can be tricky, as it only works on certain spacings and is a link.
  • 236B > Crossup 236B
- While technically able to be accomplished from any HKD ender, it's fairly difficult to space correctly even with stancels, and thus is mostly used after 236B hkd. This is a very strong option due to it being a 19 frame crossup and it often leading to a full combo, but has the caveat of being -11 and only being cancellable into supers on block. That being said, it's good to show occasionally to try and make your other options less predictable.
  • TK 236B > Microdash 2A/shjC
- While the opponent is falling after TK Cutlass B, you are able to microdash under to crossup and meaty. This can be further expanded on by shorthopping over them after the initial crossup, forcing your opponent to stay on their toes and giving nice 4 way mix.
  • 2C > shjC
- A very plus, 19 frame overhead which then can setup a fuzzy guard break. This is a very strong, safe option as it can also be timed for a safejump. You can also slightly delay the jC after the shorthop so it whiffs, granting a nice high/low.
  • 2C > 236C xx dl.236XX
- If you time this well, the second hit of your super can crossup. This is an extremely high risk option, due to super being -71, and having a long superflash to react to, meaning you should rarely ever, if not never, do this. However it is a funny knowledge check!

Soft Knockdown

Soft Knockdown oki is usually fairly weak due to how much variance there is. However this is not the case for Shanty, as she has several great SKD options, although they are generally very hard due to requiring quick reaction times. Having a quick dash and shorthop available, with practice you can react to any roll and then fuzzy guard break them for trying. This is because after a roll, there are a few frames where you can't input any move other than block, and are forced into a standing hurtbox. You can also get good magic by doing 2C > whiffed 22[A], giving you plus frames even if they instant neutral getup, which is the fastest SKD wakeup option. You are also able to safejump shjC on reaction to their wakeup, although this can be tricky as it's a tight reaction.

Defense

Matchups

TFH icon Arizona.png
Arizona[No Data]
[Character Page]


TFH icon Oleander.png
Oleander[No Data]
[Character Page]


TFH icon Paprika.png
Paprika[No Data]
[Character Page]


TFH icon Pom.png
Pom
[Character Page]
Keeping a keen eye on Pom's puppies and their number of uses is critical. For details on how Pom's puppies work, see: Pom's Magic. A tip some players do is to use the in-game UI to keep track of which dogs she has available. Sometimes Pom players would leave the dogs off-screen to mess with the opponents. It can be difficult to know if the dog's uses are finished and are gone in the heat of the moment. Sometimes the dogs are just hiding from the camera view waiting for their opportunity to strike.

Neutral
Long poke can be annoying to deal with as Shanty but there are ways around it. The notable tool the Shanty has is Bulkhead or 4C/6C. This move high-profiles some of Pom normals and can easily get in if used correctly. For example, if a Pom player is PushBlocking you after 5C then they do their own 5C. Using Bulkhead can help punish the whiff recovery. You must be the judge when to use 6C or use 4C or delay it. 4C/6C may be the same move but they have their own use because of the distances that Bulkhead ends at. Shanty's game plan is to dodge and weave their opponent's buttons and punish the recovery of said buttons or moves. 2B, 236A, and 5D are some other tools you can use as well.

Pom dogs are projectile moves that can be used at any time. Shanty having projectile invul moves and stances can use those dogs to make unsafe and risky callouts somewhat safe. (IF THEY ARE ACTIVE) The fastest way and safest way is to do 5C 2C 2D. You can do 2C into Cutlass (A,B,C) to KO dogs and stancels to be somewhat safe. This can throw your opponent off if they are not ready for it. You need to keep in mind Pom as well, if Pom is blocking or attacks you, Pom will get a hard counter hit and you will lose half your health if Pom decides to spend meter. A good idea is to try to hit the dogs when Pom is moving them manually. It can be difficult to hit dogs when they are moving/active. It takes some time to get used to Shanty disjoints like 2C or 5C to hit them.

(Following 2 statements were tested without the use of any dogs. This is just talking about solo Pom)

Knowing how to Anti Air Pom is also key when playing neutral. Pom players are known for jumping in attacks like j.B or j.C. 2B is strong Anti Air but can't cover some specific ranges that 6A or 236A can cover. The general rule is when Pom is doing j.C you dash up 6A or 236A to Anti Air into a combo. When punishing j.C at max range it can be tricky to get a combo off. Some adjustments might be needed to keep the combo going or end the combo short and go for HKD instead.

Pom j.C is a fake mix mid-screen on her own in both HKD or SKD, you can easily 6A it and not worry so much about pom dogs (236B). It depends on which dog Pom is using in said setups. A lot of it can vary.

Offense
The main goal of Shanty in this MU is to not let Pom summon any dogs on screen and try to fight a 1 on 1 as much as possible. Combos with Shanty would always put your opponents near or at the corner. When Pom players are trapped in the corner it is good to check for their RPS wake-up habits. If they are known for up backing in corner 2A check them. Your safest bait is to check with 2A and react accordingly. 2A covers the majority of wakeups but sometimes can't check forward rolls. Delaying your second 2A can help keep them locked down. This will depend a lot on who you are fighting but showing that you are willing to check them is good. It makes Pom players stop jumping and blocking. In some cases CC if it goes into block strings. Check them to also stop dogs attacks. Pom dogs stop dead in their tracks if Pom is hit or blocks any button (However 236C dog 6D, also known as “Mama’s Counter”, doesn’t stop if Pom blocks. It only stops if you hit Pom).

Stagger Pressure with Shanty is great to have under your belt in this MU. This helps deal with defensive Poms who Pushblock Sheepherd A/B > 236XX. Acting as a frame trap to cover Sheepherd or caught a mistime Pushblock. When Pom Sheepherds Shanty would automatically turn if Pom passes you.

ADD GRABS for your corner set-play. Grabs in general are very important for Shanty RPS tools. Grabs allow you to set up Fuzzy block strings, Grabbaits, or in this case, help deal with sheep herding RPS. Showing more Grabs in your game plan is never a bad option to show and help mix up your pressure. Make the Pom respect your pressure, although the actual reward for grabbing mid-screen is fairly weak for Shanty. Shanty’s Grabs really shine in the corner. When in the corner, grabs allow Shanty to set up either a corner steal pump a little more damage or gather magic resources.

It is ok to go in and stay in but also learn how to play at Mid ranges. Now it can seem bad to just stand there but it can actually work in Shanty's favor. Stay in Mid-range vs Pom, this makes some Pom panic. Shanty magic gathers slowly over time while Pom needs to input a special to get a dog out. By just standing there you are threatening to punish any dog summons. While at the same time gaining something from it. If the Pom super just answers back with Cutlass C > Super 1, as Cutlass C invulnerability lets Shanty ignore the Super and hit Pom.

Defense
Defense vs Pom can be tough. She is known to be hard to block. She can do empty jumps low, high low, left right, etc. She has a wide range of mixes to do. Breaking down Pom mixes one by one can help you understand them and see which part you are getting hit on. Most of the time it is important to look at Pom like everyone in the cast since she is also able to reverse beat 6A from B normals.

For deal with j.B (and IADj.B) 6A and 2B work just as well. Sometimes Pom does left-right situations and doing 2B can help deal with the potential incoming mixes. If Pom does full jump j.B Back Dash or Forward Dash Block. Against IADj.B it is a lot easier to deal with 2B or Back Dash. It is important to remember that 2B is a move that can help Pom deal with her overwhelmingly strong vortex mixes.

Extra notes
If Pom is fullscreen and she super you can’t mess with her. Just block it out and keep an eye out if she summons a dog or is moving a dog towards you when the super is about to end.


TFH icon Tianhuo.png
Tianhuo[No Data]
[Character Page]


TFH icon Velvet.png
Velvet[No Data]
[Character Page]


TFH icon Shanty.png
Shanty[No Data]
[Character Page]



General
Controls
FAQ
Glossary
HUD
Links
System
Characters
Arizona
Oleander
Paprika
Pom
Tianhuo
Velvet
Shanty
Texas
Stronghoof
Nidra
Baihe
Predators
Huggles
Events