Idol Showdown/Suisei Hoshimachi/Strategy
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Strategy
Oki
22M gives you hard knockdown. Superchat cancel into a fully charged 214[L] for a meaty that's safe from wakeup reversals and provides massive blockstun for you to freely run your mixup. Alternatively, use 214H when you don't have superchat but have meter to spare for slightly different options.
TLDR:
- 22M or 236G for HKD
- 66>214H>... or SCC>214[L]
- ...>9jA IOH
- ...>2L low
- 66>dl.214H/214H>66>
- also allows command grab
Basics of 214H oki:
- 2L low >
- 2M low >
- 9jL IOH > land > 2M >
- 9jH crossup > 2L/M
- 9jH[4] sameside > 2L/M
- tk9S overhead
- 9dljS wiff into crossup 2L low
Depending on when you do the 214H and if you micro dash before it your options might change
22M
- 22M>214H
- you are somewhat further away after this one you can then dash up and act before 214H hits
- this leaves a gap to get hit by an invul reversal but if they mash a normal they will get hit by the orb and you can combo even if it trades
- >dash throw/commandthrow
- normal throw might be better midscreen since they will waekup and still get hit by the last 2 hits of the 214H projectile
- >9>jH crossup
- >9[4]>jH sameside>sameside 2L
- >9[4]>jH sameside>crossup 2L
- if you crossup after the jC mostly depends an the amount of back drift
- 50/50 high low mix
- dash > 2L low > stuff
- dash > 9jL IOH > 2L/M
- you are somewhat further away after this one you can then dash up and act before 214H hits
- 22M>microdash>214H
- 214H will hit meaty so you cant throw
- >9[4]>jH crossup
- you cant drift enought o make jH not crossup
- 50/50 high low mix
- 2L low > Stuff
- 9jL IOH>land>2M
- 2L>dl9jL low into IOH but you cant combo after it so only for when 61 damage kills
- 2L>2H can Pressure can lead to all the fun 2H pressure
- 214H will hit meaty so you cant throw
- 22M>microdash>dl>214H
- will leave a gap again so you can throw here
Tetris oki 236G commandgrab also gives you enough Advantage to setup 214H
- 236G>214H will hit meaty but you are somewhat far away
- 236G>microdash>214H
- same oki as 22B>microdash>214H
- 236G>dl214H
- same oki as 22B>214H
- do 214H around when they hit the ground after the bounce
Meterless oki
- 66>214[L]
- only slightly charge the 214L
- hits meaty if charge time is correct
- botan can't shopingcart out of it!
- invul reversals beat it on the 214L recovery
- 66>dl.214L
- should work the same as above
- 66>(w)214L
- WARNING gimmicky!
- whiffs so you can do a commandgrab if you have made them respect the normal oki
- missing scribble sound might give it away!
- might be fuzzy mashable!
- 214[M]>
- hit meaty but you are somewhat to far away to do stuff
- 2M can combo but its longrange so only 236L is viable
- tkJS for plusframes but it is 2H mashable even if they get hit by the projectile!
- has some wierd interactions with invul reversals
- korones 22H will wiff even if you charege a bit to long
- ayames 22H will punish the 214M if not done perfectly!
- 214M>
- WARNING gimmicky!
- whiffs so you can do a commandgrab if you have made them respect the normal oki
- baits invul reversals by just holding 1 after
Pressure
Suisei's Pressure can be oppressive if she manages to get close
- she has great tools for staggering
- a lot of ways to reset pressure
- and also tools to make people pay if they start anticipating the resets instead of reacting to them
- she can make any blockstring safe
TLDR
- 5L>2L +0!
- 5L>5M>...
- ...>5L>5M
- ...> staggered Nomals
- ...> Commandgrab
- 2H>jc.jS for + Frames
- 6H to close back the gap if you spaced to far for 2H
- 214L/M > dash Pressure reset
- 236L to make Blockstring save but lose your turn
- 22S~6 > to reset Pressure
5L>2L
- 2L is 0 on block but has very short range
- 5L is -3 but moves forward and has a bit more range
- so you have an advancing string that is neutral on block and still can be delay canceled for frametraps
- Loop it into itself (if yous tarted very close) go for a dl.2M/5M to mix in frametraps, or use command throw
5M
- 5M is 7F advancing and -2 on Block
- also a very good button in stagger pressure with a lot of cancel options
- follow up options are very ambiguous so its a good point to reset the pressure
- you will probably be in 5L range
2H
- probably the best button to route to for non stagger pressure
- it's jump cancelable so you have a lot of options here
- if done before 6H it can still be cancelled into 5H if it's open
- 2H>(dl.)5H
- true blockstring if canceled immediately else it can frametrap
- will beat them mashing if they expected a jumpcancel option
- jc.Stuff
- 7jc.jS> overhead into + Frames
- 7jc.dl.jS> overhead crossup into + Frames
- timing it pretty specific if you do it to late jS will wiff!
- 9([4])jc.dl.jH> "crossup" overhead
- if you just do 9 jH might whiff
- 9[4]jc.dl.jH> sameside overhead > crossup low
- hold 4 immediately after jumping and do jH a bit earlier
- 8[6]jc.jH> sameside overhead
- 7 wait for a whiffed 2H then j236X (might not work on all of the cast)
- if you do j236X early you might whiff crouchers and low 2H hurtboxes like Botan
- if you do it late (on whe way down) you might not be able to punish anymore (test if botan just beats it)
- all of the jc stuff can be mashed out of most of the time even by 2H
- you will have to make them actually react to the jump cancel and not just mash by mixing in 5H/6H frametraps
- 214X > Pressure
- see below
- dl.236L Frametrap
- 22S>6>...
>5H
- hurtbox is atrocious, DO NOT USE UNLESS CANCELED INTO!
- has a lot of blockstun
- has even more recovery
- gigantic cancel window
- probably the best button to do a 22S>6 cancel from
- Cancels into 6H and 2H for a continued blocksting
- dl.6H, dl.2H for frametraps
- probably the best point for a 236M
- 236M is somewhat reactable
- mix in 3H for a low
- 3H can be hard to hitconfirm since you need a very fast 22L
- 22L should not be buffered! it will kill you if they block.
6H
- forward advancing with a lot of startup and active frames
- its often a natural frametrap
- natural frametrap with a VERY small gap from 2H
- true blockstring form 5H
- can only be cancelled to 2H and 3H
- will lock you out of any other normals afterwards!
- probably the best thing is to go to 2H and use the followups from that
- will send the opponent flying from counterhit
- probably not the best thing to have happen if you are not close to the corner
236L
- it will make all pressure safe but to be neutral it needs to be spaced very far
- you cant really do a blockstring into the safe version!
214X
- is in general a good option to reset pressure
- both options are mashable by most B normals but its somewhat hard to do it on reaction
- will then most likely trade
- what you can get off it is somewhat space dependent
- you can normalize the spacing with advancing normals like 5L, 5M, 5H and esspecially 6H and 3M
- in general 214L hits later and is somewhat mashable although it will trade with most stuff
- 214M hits earlier but also causes more pushback
- here are some ideas for pressure resets:
- 214L
- 214L>dash>(dl).5L or dl.236G command grab
- >214L>5L>(w2L)>2M/5H>...
- when you are very close or moving forward so mostly after (5L)>5M, close 5H or 6H
- you have to hit the 5L during teh beginning of the 214L blockstun
- 2M will be nearly a true blockstring 5H will be a frametrap
- 5M will whiff on crouch block after 5L or 5L>(w2L) so you can't reliably use it there
- in the corner you can nearly always go for 5L>2L
- 2L(w) is a F-Ciel style bootleg rebeat (don't know if it is useful at all but it is funny!)
- 5L>2L(w)> kara command throw (236M~G) seems to be possible but the timing and spacing is very strict
- microwalk command throw 23[6].dlG seems to be a bit more consistent
- 5L>2L(w)> kara command throw (236M~G) seems to be possible but the timing and spacing is very strict
- you can microwalk after the 214L to make 5L>2L connect but timing is pretty tight
- 214M
- hits earlier then 214M so you are not ready for a 5L/M while they are still in range
- 214M > dash 5L/Command throw
- follow up buttons that hit are 2M, 5H, 6H, 3M
- from 2M and 5H you need to go into a special or 6H
- double 214M
- stuff>3H>214M>2M/5H>214M>dl.236L
- spaces 236L so that it is less negative or even 0(testing needed!)
- might be hard to enforce pressure since the gaps for the 214M are pretty large
- 214X>TKjS
- this will look nearly indistinguishable form 236M but it is +
- somewhat reactable
Specific Pressure Strings
- Corner 5M>5H>214M Blocksting loops
- has very small gaps between 5H>214M and 214M>5M
- not mashable!
- they need to use a invuln reversal or a collab to get out
- it is actually quite hard to buffer a reversal in this string
- might interact differently with some moves (testing needed!)
- Sora 22M will just beat it!
Closing Thoughts
- Very delayed stagger pressure is somewhat succeptible to chicken blocking
- you might be able to do 22L on reaction if you got them blocking in the air!
ToDos:
- check jc.jS against 7Frame buttons that AA! can they just mash those?
- Check against wich 2H mash we lose against when doing 6H>2H followups with everything but 236L frametrap or block, against which chars cant we even block
- test 2H>7 wait for wiff 2H then j236X against all characters
- stuff>3H>214M>2M/5H>214M>dl.236L test if we can steal back our turn here or do we still lose in the 5F wars
- test Corner 5M>5H>214M Blocksting loops which reversals and buttons let people escape
- or dont and let them find out themselves^^
Defense
TLDR
- no invul reversals!
- 5L best abare button!
- 2L rather bad since 6F and low range!
- 2M if they use a spaced special move
- Collabs can be your best defensive tools
Suisei does not have a real full invul reversal so defense can be tough.
The saving grace is somewhat 2M if they end a Blockstring and then try to do a special that is slow enough you can often mash out with it (eg. most of botans specials lose or at worst trade)
Other good abare buttons are 5L and 5M since they move forward and are fast.
2L is a slightly bad abare button since its only 6F and has very short range.
You can also use a Collab Partner when the enemy leaves gaps in the sting.
Especially Superchat Collab, basically free since you dont have to let go of 1 and just mash til there is a gap
A good example is Roboco: Both of her Call-ins can be used defensively in the corner.
The laser should leave you plus even if they block.
If they want to not get hit by the missiles, they have to move forward into you which will most likely give you an opportunity to throw or mash out.
Might not work against characters that can pressure form further away like Aki
Also she is offscreen when she fires the missiles in the corner so your opponent might not realize that you called her and stay offensive.
Your Collab Choice should take usefulness as a defensive tool into consideration.
Assist Synergy
Ordered based on synergy with Suisei. (skeleton, not ordered)
| Assist | Off Collab | STAR Call-In | Extra Synergy Notes | Application Examples |
|
Demon King Miko (3 bars) | Lava Disaster | - | |
|
Time Slow (3 bars) | Ground Pound | - | |
|
Soran Bushi (2 bars) | 50kg Grip | - | |
|
Hi-Spec Missiles (3 bars) | Hi-Spec Beam | - | |
|
HINOTORI (2 bars) | SPARKS | - | |
|
Omen (2 bars) | Full Power Flaming Punch | - | |
|
NinNinjanai (2 bars) | Eggplant Slice | - | |
|
Hugging Pirate (3 bars) | The Aquamarine |
|
- |
|
Non-stop Nuts (2 bars) | Isekai Truck | - | |
|
High Tide (3 bars) | Supernova | - | |
|
ERROR (3 bars) | Zero-Guessr | - | |
|
Lvl. 69 Smithing Grindset (2 bars) | Get Some Help! | - |
