Vampire Savior/Lilith/Archive
Introduction
Lilith (リリス), the mobile Succubus, and Morrigan's literal other half. She joined the roster in VSAV and quickly disappeared in sequel releases. As a compliment to Morrigan, and having a ground-based fighting style, she stands out as a fan favorite.
Lilith has a speedy ground game with big burst damage. At the highest level of play, she has to embrace a strong sense of Game mechanics to overcome her mid to low tier placement.
Gameplay
Primary Objectives:
- Pressure the opponent with dashing frame traps
- Abuse her strong Throw Option Select
- Convert hits into Luminous Illusion for big damage + Okizeme
Strengths | Weaknesses |
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Normal Moves
Standing
LP
[ Startup: 5 | Hit:+6 | Block:+5 (normal)] [ Startup: 4 | Hit:+7 | Block:+6 (dashing)] Ear poke. The hitbox is somewhat high which makes it whiff most crouching characters. Advantageous on hit/block and gains a renda bonus. Primarily used for dash cancelling or guard breaking rather than as an actual threat. Can also be used to hit people out of poorly spaced hops or instant air dashes especially during overaggressive blockstrings and resets in pressure. | |
n.LP
[ Startup: 5 | Hit:+6 | Block:+5 | Renda: H:+9 B:+8 (normal) ] [ Startup: 4 | Hit:+7 | Block:+6 (dashing)] Light Chop. Despite it's appearance it's basically identical in frame and function to the far version.
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MP
[ Startup: 8 | Hit:+4 | Block:+3 (normal) ] [ Startup: 7 | Hit:+5 | Block:+4 (dashing)] Side Chop. Good long hitbox, cancelable, and excellent frame advantage on hit/block make this rather ideal for dash pressure and general midrange poking. Your basic go-to move when at a distance. It is important to learn which characters can crouch under this move. Has a hitbox located higher than MK so it is often used to catch people jumping out of pressure and also used to guard break after a blocked airchain. | |
n.MP
[ Startup: 6 | Hit:-5 | Block:-6 (normal) ] [ Startup: 5 | Hit:-4 | Block:-5 (dashing)] Drill. Nearly worthless, try to avoid using this. The hitbox is deceptively high and small so it will whiff crouching characters and it does not make for an anti-air either. The frame disadvantage on this move is terrible as well. It's one saving grace is that it's canceable, but during a dash it's neither cancelable or chainable so you most definitely want to avoid using it during a dash unless you fully intend to LI cancel it.
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HP
[ Startup: 9 | Hit:-1 | Block:-2 (normal) ] [ Startup: 8 | Hit:-0 | Block:-1 (dashing)] Needles. Pretty good hitbox, but not very good frame advantage. This is sometimes used due to the long active duration, which allows one to buffer LI easily during it, and also to slide a great distance during a dash. One could use it as a meaty due to it's long active hitframes, but in general it's only very sparsely used. Although n.HP is preferred, the dashing version is a good way to guardbreak after a blocked fireball or a blocked j.HK due it large horizontal hitbox. | |
n.HP
[ Startup: 9 | Hit:+3 | Block:+2 (normal) ] [ Startup: 8 | Hit:+4 | Block:+3 (dashing)] Upper Spikes. This is the preferred move to use when attempting to input a throw, since accidentally getting this is way better than accidentally getting n.MP. Although it's not special cancelable it has decent frame advantage and a rather bizarre/interesting hitbox. This move seems to move Lilith forward a deceptive amount making quite a lot of counter-pokes whiff through her body entirely. It also has very good vertical reach so it's a pretty good option select between throw/anti-jump-out.
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LK
[ Startup: 6 | Hit:+5 | Block:+4 | Renda: H:+8 B:+7 (normal) ] [ Startup: 5 | Hit:+6 | Block:+5 (dashing)] Shin kick. Has a lower hitbox than LP which makes it more commonly used as a dash attack than LP. The far version of this move has roughly the same advantage and renda bonus as LP, however it looks identical in appearance to the close version which does not have the same advantage, making the move somewhat problematic. In general, a pretty good light attack, best if spaced to max range or chained/linked into itself. | |
n.LK
[ Startup: 6 | Hit:+3 | Block:+2 | Renda: H:+6 B:+5 (normal) ] [ Startup: 5 | Hit:+4 | Block:+3 (dashing)] Identical in appearance to LK, except that the frame advantage on the close version is only about half as good as the far version or LP. Be that as it may, it basically has the same uses.
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MK
[ Startup: 6 | Hit:+2 | Block:+1 (normal) ] [ Startup: 5 | Hit:+3 | Block:+2 (dashing) ] Boot. Good hitbox. However it is not cancelable and the frame advantage off it is not quite as good as far MP, but it's still advantageous. The dash version makes a pretty good tick throw setup when alternated with staggers. Due to the total worthlessness of close MP it's sometimes a good idea to use MK in order to avoid running the risk of getting close MP by accident. | |
HK
[ Startup: 20 | Hit:-5 | Block:-6 (normal) ] [ Startup: 19 | Hit:-4 | Block:-5 (dashing)] Scythe. Despite it's very slow startup and appearance this move is not an overhead. Which basically makes it pretty worthless. You can sometimes use it as an anti-air, or to set up a frame trap LI-cancel gimmick, but in general you won't be using this move much (if at all). | |
n.HK
[ Startup: 8 | Hit:-5 | Block:-6 (normal) ] [ Startup: 7 | Hit:-4 | Block:-5 (dashing)] Spinner. Because this move is multi-hit, it makes for a good hit-confirm into LI, since you have plenty of time to both buffer the input and confirm the hit. Unfortunately, like the far version, it's both uncancellable and disadvantageous on hit/block, so ideally you would cancel to LI regardless if it hits or not.
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Crouching
c.LP
[ Startup: 4 | Hit:+8 | Block:+7 | Renda: H:+11 B:+10 ] Jab. High blockable. Despite being high blockable this is one of Lilith's essential moves due to it having the highest frame advantage and renda bonus out of her moveset. It's also one of the ways she can confirm into LI, as chaining or linking crouching jabs into themselves begins the LI input. Generally a good way to reset/start dash pressure due to it having extremely good frame advantage. | |
c.MP
[ Startup: 6 | Hit:+2 | Block:+1 ] Wing Blades. Kind of a relatively crappy move. Her c.MK has better range, faster startup, and much better advantage. Fortunately it's not disadvantageous and it's cancelable, but for the most part she has other moves that do everything it does but better. | |
c.HP
[ Startup: 9 | Hit:-2 | Block: -3 ] Wing Whip. One of Lilith's essential moves for comboing LI. Typically chained into and then cmd-super canceled into LI. It's unfortunately not frame advantageous and not cancelable, but it's also not particularly punishable. It's only mildly useful as a poke though, typically players only use it during chains. | |
c.LK
[ Startup: 4 | Hit:+6 | Block:+5 | Renda: H:+9 B:+8 ] Low Short. Hits low, cancelable, good frame advantage. A typical low short. Not as advantageous as c.LP, but still pretty good and also gains a renda bonus. | |
c.MK
[ Startup: 4 | Hit:-2 | Block:-3 ] Low Forward. Hits low, cancelable, decent frame advantage. It's a nice poke, and is useful during dash rushdown for cancelling into Soul Flash pressure or simply to combo into Soul Flash or Merry Turn. The best part about this move though is the disturbingly fast startup, as it shares the same startup speed as c.LP and c.LK at four frames. Definitely the move of choice for special cancels. | |
c.HK
[ Startup: 14 | Hit: Knockdown | Block:-20 ] Scythe Slide. Hits low, sweeps. This move is pretty horrible. Only use it when you're able to hitconfirm it off a normal chain. About the only other time you'd want to use this is if you were going to try a gimmicky blocked c.HK into LI frametrap. |
Jumping
j.LP
[ Startup: 5 ] Needle. Typical jumping jab. Her fastest startup for a jumping attack. Sometimes used together with j.LK to confirm into LI. | |
j.MP
[ Startup: 6 ] Blades. Decent j.MP. The hitbox extends downwards somewhat which is good for startup a jumpin airchain, such as j.MP j.MK. | |
j.HP
[ Startup: 7 ] Spinning Rims. Deceptive hitbox. The sprite looks like it hits all around her, but it does not. Usable as a crossup against wide characters, though not as much crossup potential as j.MK. A general purpose air-to-air or air-to-ground move. Possibly her best jumping attack, though j.LP and j.MK are her go-to moves in the air. | |
j.LK
[ Startup: 6 ] Knee. Typical jumping short. Useful in air battles or after chicken blocking. Also useful to stuff some anti-airs. | |
j.MK
[ Startup: 6 ] Leg Thrust. Has crossup potential. May be better as a crossup than j.HP in some regards. Also useful in air-to-air battles since it extends quite a ways forwards. Pretty good after airblocking as well since the startup is quite fast and the reach is good. | |
j.HK
[ Startup: 9 ] Scythe Swing. Great range. Typically used at max range when everything else would miss. This is pretty good for beating anti-airs when spaced properly since the hitbox is so good at max range. Not very good in air-to-air battles though since the startup is slow. Vertical jumping HK makes a pretty good poke or zoning tool simply because of the range and hitbox. Still, it's not something that is used frequently, but rather just when the situation calls for it. |
Command Normal Moves
P Throw: Hug Cut. Pretty decent normal throw as Lilith recovers very quickly, giving it pretty good okizeme options. If the opponent techs they will be reset just outside of sweep range, and Lilith still recovers before the opponent, making it pretty good for okizeme even if tech'd. Ideally you'd want to throw towards the corner, and avoid using MP in order to avoid the risk of getting n.MP.
Air Throw: Slam. Pretty good air throw. The range is good and it grabs people in front or very slightly above her. She recovers quickly from this airthrow so even if the opponent tech hits she recovers a few frames sooner than them. It's controllable and she throws opposite of the direction held, so throwing away from the corner results in the opponent being tossed towards the corner. Not a bad anti-air option select when used in combination with chicken blocking.
Pursuit: Stomp. Typical pursuit in terms of speed and damage, however Lilith's pursuit is one of the few that causes the character to bounce to the other side of the opponent after using it. Thus, you don't want to use it against a cornered opponent, but if your back is to the corner it's fairly useful for getting out quickly. Because Lilith relies on okizeme so much it's generally a bad idea to use this move unless it will KO the opponent, or if you are intentionally whiffing it in order to close the distance between you and the opponent.
Movement
Walk: Average Fast-type walk speed and height.
Dash: A ground-based dash. Good movement speed, cancelable fairly early into a quickstop by pressing 4 out of a forward dash or 6 out of a back dash. Attacking during a dash will result in a while-dashing attack. Generally speaking Lilith's while-dashing attacks gain a small frame advantage over her normal attacks but lose their ability to chain or cancel. The dashing attacks also maintain some dash momentum and Lilith will continue to slide for a bit.
Jump: Average jump height and arc. Average startup speed and movement speed. Added cancellable landing recovery pose.
Super Jump: A much higher jump than her standard jump, and also more startup. Lilith will automatically turn around if she crosses over the opponent, allowing her to attack towards the opponent. Aside from the auto turn and jump arc it is identical in all other regards. This move is accompanied by a voice sample and a trail of graphical sparklies. Fairly useful movement option though not something to be spammed recklessly.
Specials
Soul Flash (fireball) – 236P (air):
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Shining Blade (DP) – 623P (GC):
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Merry Turn (tatsu) – 214K:
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Mystic Arrow (throw) - 624P:
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Super Jump (sj) - 2 7/8/9:
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EX Moves
Splendor Love (bats) - 623KK:
This has no invulnerability frames despite the motion and appearance. As far as supers go this one's not very useful. The long recovery and poor startup make it basically worthless outside of combos, especially due to the complete lack of invincibility. The damage is pretty decent inside combos (a tiny bit more damage than LI) and it's hit confirmable off a link into c.MK. Still, most Lilith players rather attempt a LI instead of S.Love so it's very rarely used. | |
Luminous Illusion (raging demon) - LP, LP, 6, LK, HP (air):
Lilith's most useful super, assuming you can execute it well. Because it's a cmd super it's comboability is high. The damage is also good and it's recovery on whiff is basically non-existent (actually 1F). Even though there is some punishable recovery on block it's not especially easy to punish it. Generally speaking this is the move you want to practice doing, because it's one of Lilith's strongest assets as a use any-time any-where kind of move. The 4F startup on this move makes it an excellent point-blank punish as well. For some reason, after Dark-Force has ended, Luminous Illusion does significantly less damage. Her two Dark-Force both affect the damage in different ways. Never activate Dark-Force. | |
Gloomy Puppet Show (dance) - 426KK:
One of the few supers in the game that costs two stocks. Damage is dependent on how well the Lilith player inputs the attack inputs shown during the dance. Pretty worthless as a super, especially due to how much it costs and it's ridiculously slow startup. If the damage was actually worth it it might be something to use occasionally, but since it's not worth it this move hardly gets any use. One esoteric gimmick is to first use Lilith's Mimic Doll Dark Force then do the Puppet Show, since the doll will mimic the hat toss it can catch people unaware. Gloomy Puppet cannot be executed while a Soul Flash is on-screen. Dances probabilities:
https://kakuge.com/wiki/pages/%E3%82%B0%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9F%E3%83%BC%E3%83%91%E3%83%9A%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%82%A6: http://www.temptation.tk/vampire/SAVIOR/lilith/page1.htm |
Dark Force
Illusion Attack: Mindless Doll - Same strength P + K:
- Both of Lilith's Dark Forces are fairly useful, though the recovery duration kind of hurts it. If you find yourself building up more meter than you can use, it may be a good idea to use a DF. Though ideally you'd want to knock the opponent down or superjump away from them before deactivation to avoid punishment, or use a LP/ES Soul Flash right before deactivation to help provide some cover fire.
- Mimic Doll (Light/Medium Version): A copy image follows behind Lilith and mimics everything she does with a short delay. The doll can't be hit, but it will perform every action Lilith does exactly as she does it, which includes throwing actual fireballs and even her Puppet Show projectile. Unfortunately it's not possible to set up unblockables with this move because the doll doesn't retain overhead properties on jumping attacks. It is, however, possible to launch some pretty beefy pressure and perform custom-combo-esque juggles.
- Mirror Doll (Heavy Version): A copy image teleports behind the opponent and mirrors everything Lilith does with no delay. The doll will keep relative distance from the opponent as Lilith's real body, and will face towards the opponent, essentially making the opponent act as a mirror. Like the Mimic Doll the doll can't be hit but it will copy every action Lilith does exactly as she does it.
Frame Data
Normals
Move | Startup | Hit
Advantage |
Block
Advantage |
Meter
Whiff/Block/Hit |
Guard | Cancel | Notes |
n.LP | 5 | +6 | +5 | 0/3/6 | Mid | Yes/Rapid | Renda+: H:+9 B:+8 |
n.MP | 6 | -5 | -6 | 3/ 9/15 | Mid | Yes | |
n.HP | 9 | +3 | +2 | 6/15/24 | Mid | × | |
n.LK | 6 | +3 | +2 | 0/ 3/ 6 | Mid | Yes/Rapid | Renda+: H:+6 B:+5 |
n.MK | 6 | +2 | +1 | 3/ 9/15 | Mid | × | |
n.HK | 8 | -5 | -6 | 6/ 8+2*3/11+5*3 | Mid | × | |
LP | 5 | +6 | +5 | 0/ 3/ 6 | Mid | Yes/Rapid | Renda+: H:+9 B:+8 |
MP | 8 | +4 | +3 | 3/ 9/15 | Mid | Yes | |
HP | 9 | -1 | -2 | 6/15/24 | Mid | × | |
LK | 6 | +5 | +4 | 0/ 3/ 6 | Mid | Yes/Rapid | Renda+: H:+8 B:+7 |
MK | 6 | +2 | +1 | 3/ 9/15 | Mid | × | |
HK | 20 | -5 | -6 | 6/10+4/15+9 | Mid | × |
Move | Startup | Hit
Advantage |
Block
Advantage |
Meter
Whiff/Block/Hit |
Guard | Cancel | Notes |
c.LP | 4 | +8 | +7 | 0/ 3/ 6 | Mid | Yes/Rapid | Renda+: H:+11 B:+10 |
c.MP | 6 | +2 | +1 | 3/ 9/15 | Mid | Yes | |
c.HP | 9 | -2 | -3 | 6/15/24 | Mid | × | |
c.LK | 4 | +6 | +5 | 0/ 3/ 6 | Low | Yes | Renda+: H:+9 B:+8 |
c.MK | 4 | -2 | -3 | 3/ 9/15 | Low | Yes | |
c.HK | 14 | Down | -20 | 6/15/24 | Low | × |
Move | Startup | Hit
Advantage |
Block
Advantage |
Meter
Whiff/Block/Hit |
Guard | Cancel | Notes |
dn.LP | 4 | +7 | +6 | 0/ 3/ 6 | Mid | × | |
dn.MP | 5 | -4 | -5 | 3/ 9/15 | Mid | × | |
dn.HP | 8 | +4 | +3 | 6/15/24 | Mid | × | |
dn.LK | 5 | +4 | +3 | 0/ 3/ 6 | Mid | × | |
dn.MK | 5 | +3 | +2 | 3/ 9/15 | Mid | × | |
dn.HK | 7 | -4 | -5 | 6/ 8+2*3/11+5*3 | Mid | × | |
d.LP | 4 | +7 | +6 | 0/ 3/ 6 | Mid | × | |
d.MP | 7 | +5 | +4 | 3/ 9/15 | Mid | × | |
d.HP | 8 | 0 | -1 | 6/15/24 | Mid | × | |
d.LK | 5 | +6 | +5 | 0/ 3/ 6 | Mid | × | |
d.MK | 5 | +3 | +2 | 3/ 9/15 | Mid | × | |
d.HK | 19 | -4 | -5 | 6/10+4/15+9 | Mid | × |
Move | Startup | Meter
Whiff/Block/Hit |
Guard | Cancel | Notes |
j.LP | 5 | 0/ 3/ 6 | High | Yes | |
j.MP | 6 | 3/ 9/15 | High | Yes | |
j.HP | 7 | 6/15/24 | High | × | |
j.LK | 6 | 0/ 3/ 6 | High | Yes | |
j.MK | 6 | 3/ 9/15 | High | Yes | |
j.HK | 9 | 6/15/24 | High | × |
Specials
Move | Startup | Hit
Advantage |
Block
Advantage |
Meter
Whiff/Block/Hit |
Guard | Notes |
236LP | 13 | +2 | -8 | 12/16/21 | Mid | Downs Airborne Opponents |
236MP | 13 | +2 | -8 | 12/16/21 | Mid | |
236HP | 13 | +2 | -8 | 12/16/21 | Mid | |
236PP | 20 | +9 | -1 | 0/ 0/ 0 | Mid | |
j.236LP | 12 | 12/16/21 | Mid | Downs Airborne Opponents | ||
j.236MP | 12 | 12/16/21 | Mid | Landing Suki: 1F | ||
j.236HP | 12 | 12/16/21 | Mid | |||
j.236PP | 19 | 0/ 0/ 0 | Mid | |||
623LP | 7 | Down | -19 | 22/26/31 | Mid | Inv: 7F |
623MP | 7 | Down | -21 | 22/26/31 | Mid | Landing Suki: 4F |
623HP | 7 | Down | -25 | 22/26/31 | Mid | |
623PP | 5 | Down | -36 | 0/ 0/ 0 | Mid | Inv: 10F |
214LK | 4 | Down | -19 | 18/21/24 | Mid | Landing Suki: 10F |
214MK | 5 | Down | -25 | 18/21/24 | Mid | |
214HK | 6 | Down | -30 | 18/21/24 | Mid | |
214KK | 6 | Down | -20 | 0/ 0/ 0 | Mid | |
624LP | 38 | Down | - | 12/18 | Throw | |
624MP | 38 | Down | - | 12/18 | Throw | |
624HP | 38 | Down | - | 12/18 | Throw | |
624PP | 38 | Down | - | 0/ 0 | Throw | Wallslams. |
EX Moves
Move | Gauge | Startup | Hit
Advantage |
Block
Advantage |
Guard | Notes |
623KK | 1 | 16 | Down | -61 | Mid | (*1) |
LP LP 6 LK HP | 1 | 4 | Down | -23 | Mid | (*2) |
426KK | 2 | 25 | Down | -32 | Mid |
- Notes:
- 1: Landing Suki 10F
- 2: Landing Suki on block 10F, air version startup 2F, Invincible 1F.
Colors
Notable Players
Japan
Japanese Player Index: http://www21.atwiki.jp/vsplayer/pages/21.html
Name (English) | Name (Japanese) | Color | Location | Contact | Notes |
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Kaji | — | HP | Kanto region | http://twitter.com/drastic_oval | #1 |
Take | たけ | PP | |||
Kim | きむ | HK | Kanto region | http://twitter.com/kimlilith https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-uHm_O2iyWmJkQ4sRValpA |
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Yamamoto | 山本 | MP | Kanto region | http://twitter.com/vineyard000 | |
Lily | リリィ | KK | Kanto region | https://twitter.com/ririrililith https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuHXlxLQPpUTHiZ0FtcdxkQ |
North America
Name (English) | Name (Japanese) | Color | Location | Contact | Notes |
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Diar | ディアー | PP | California, USA | https://twitter.com/VsavDiar | Highly talented and respected player with outstanding results. Nicknamed "AmeriKaji" for his outstanding execution. Also races cars in his spare time. |
South America
Name (English) | Name (Japanese) | Color | Location | Contact | Notes |
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The Seeker | シーカー | KK | Brazil | https://twitter.com/ISW_TheSeeker | Commentates on NekoPunchi's streams, also known for his strong Morrigan. |